Breeding Dogs –
thoughts and grumbles
A section for notes, thoughts on the challenges of breeding, raising and selling puppies.
4-Mar-2025
Fads, Brands and Auctions
Like everything else, the sheep dog world has changed a lot in the last 25-30 years, with the internet and global prosperity. When I first encountered sheep dog trialing in the 1990’s while living and working in Britain, sheep dog trials were just another part of rural farm life. There were some luminaries and national trials, but the sport was more local and regional. There was no money in it to speak of. Going to a trial was like going to a local cricket match, good fun for the morning and into the afternoon.
“Money Changes Everything”, the title to the 1983 Cyndi Lauper song. It has changed the sheep dog world. Sheep dog culture begins to resemble race horse culture. The quest for the best dog becomes a kind of compulsion. Brands (of successful handlers and trial winners) become aspirational. Like sports kit, “gotta have it (the best sheep dog brand), ’cause it will make me (more?) successful”, and if I don’t have it others won’t take notice. The ‘right’ pedigrees become the prerequisite for seriousness in the sheep dog world.
I remember taking my first border collie to a sheep dog clinic by an English champion trialist put on by a pretentious, snobby dog woman. My dog was handsome and talented. The dog women, who are the principal competitors on the East Coast of the USA, asked to see his pedigree, so I pulled it up. I didn’t know anything about the dogs in his lineage, a couple of generations of American dogs and back to UK dogs, but obviously they did. I was new to sheep dogs; I just knew I had good one. They looked at it and the head mean girl said (deprecatingly), “Well, that’s an interesting pedigree.” It was one of those NOCD (‘Not Our Class, Dear’) put downs that 7 Sister College women used to say when one of their rank dated a boy not up to snuff.
Americans are known for their brand obsession. They have become fan girls (and boys) of successful international trialists, seeking the latest issue of their dogs. It sometimes borders on cult following. The dogs can be crap, but at least they have the right pedigree and brand and the latest fad –“gotta have it!”. The handling / competitive skills of most of the buyers is mediocre (at best), but like golfers or skiers, at least they have the right right kit to impress the lookers. In truth, the trialists / breeders in the UK keep the best for themselves, share the next best with their network and sell the shit to Americans (who are glad to have it, at an inflated price, which somehow in their minds equates to value).
…and then there are the online auctions, in the UK. Pure circus. I have purchased at auction, with very mixed results. The branded dogs go for astronomical prices, higher every year (allowing for a COVID bump). Some are not even trained by the brand trainer, just re-branded for the auction. There are crazy rage bidding wars, that result in a 16 week old pup being purchased for $13,000. I have purchased 3 dogs at auction. One is very good. Another is okay. The remaining one is less-than-okay. Since the dog being bid on is 3000 miles away and all bidders have to go by is an edited video, the bidders don’t truly know until the dog arrives what had been bought. In general, I do not recommend actions for serious sheep dog purchasers.
I started breeding my own sheep dogs because it is very hard to purchase good dogs. As the sheep dog world changed: it has become a branded, money business …the “money spoiled everything”. Farmers became businessmen, trying to get the maximum out of every deal. Full disclosure is rare. Every dog is a ‘cracker’, a trial project, huge potential, and blah, blah, blah. Caveat emptor!
Resisting the hype and brand/pedigree fetish is hard, even for me who kind of knows it when when it is being purveyed. Wise buyers need to be able to say no and not get caught up in the hype, fad (dog / brand of the moment) and compulsion to find / buy the best dog, those talked up by the industry influencers and purveyors .
There are old fashioned good breeders out there. They take some finding. And they are likely to be wary of American buyers, at first.
Advice to puppy / dog buyers:
- Don’t buy just on brand. Look at the pedigree and all the dogs in the last 3-4 generations. Get to know the dogs in the last 3 generations. Try to understand the temperaments and working characteristics of the parents and grandparents. You don’t need all trial winners. A smattering 1-3 generations back is good
- If you buy from a top handler / trialist, you are paying a premium –perhaps a very substantial one. It may or may not be worth it.
- A pup from the daughter or son of a champion with great breeding on the other side is just as good as –perhaps better than– the champion siring the pup.
- Have discussions with the breeder. Take their measure. Are they forthcoming, will they spend time with you, or are you a pain? Also, short of seeing the dog in person, ask for and view as many videos as you can.
- Don’t purchase young pups. The sweet spot for purchasing a pup is 7-10 months. The pup is old enough to see who she/he really is. And still very pliable.
- Avoid auctions. Or at least if you are bidding, know your stopping point and hold to it.
- Be careful of the dog-de-jour/saison . Look for breeders and dogs with sustained breeding or competitive records, not just the latest championship.
- Don’t overpay. The brand premium is worth only so much, and sometimes very little. Pay for quality breeding, not for brand.
- …and remember, THERE IS ALWAYS ANOTHER PUPPY OR DOG. It doesn’t HAVE to be this one. There will be another dog or pup available now or in the future just as good or better. If the price doesn’t make sense, important things about the dog are not right (or clear), or the breeder doesn’t feel right, then keep looking until things feel right (or right enough).
28-Feb-2025
Escape Artists
Puppies are notorious ‘escape artists’. Overnight, one escaped her kennel, I probably did not fasten the door correctly, but then also got through the protective outer fence, and raised hell, chewing / destroying stuff, defecating and urinating. How the puppy got through both layers of containment is a mystery. They are very determined and resourceful.
I had one pup a couple years ago who found out how to open a very complicated locking structure on the outer kennel by jumping up and down and moving latches with her paws. She was also able to scale the 7 foot outer containment wall. Happily, she is off to a ranch in Montana.
Puppies can be VERY destructive. Twice I have had the kennel completely trashed by escapees. I have had the controls to my tractor and the expensive seat munched. I have had puppies tear up linoleum flooring and chew through door casings.
This morning, when I opened the kennel door and there was the puppy amidst her destruction and mess, I grabbed her and tossed her back into her kennel kicking the door shut with my foot …and in the process made it impossible to walk on a very sore foot. I can only hope it is not broken.
Sitting here resting my injured foot makes me wonder whether breeding puppies is really worth it. I do get some exceptional pups for myself, but it is a lot of expense (hidden and obvious) and a huge distraction. And I think to myself, “Why would any sane person do this??”
17-Feb-2025
Time to Maturity
Happily, there are no comments permitted on my website, so I don’t get blowback. So, here is a confession:
I breed border collies …but I’m really not very fond of puppies. I don’t start to enjoy them until they are 9 mo. to a year old.
That must sound odd (even churlish) …that I don’t like all the 6 and 8 week old cuteness. I supposed it is all about the same to me after enough litters. What I really care about is who / what that cuteness will become. That is why I breed dogs in the first place …for who those puppies become. I kind of endure the (nuisance and destructive) puppy weeks and months to see what the prize is in the box of Cracker Jack. [A reference that will make no sense to those younger than baby boomers or to those not from the USA.]
What prompted this reflection is how the now-6-month-old Bran x Nel females are maturing. I was initially disappointed in the litter as working collies. Now, in their 7th month, the two females are looking very interesting as working dogs.
It is an observed fact that some sires throw off fast-maturing pups. Dewi Jenkins’ lines being an example. The Jenkins sired pups grow up fast and talented (when the talent is present). The pups by Michael Healy’s Bran are taking their time. I knew from the start the females were more interesting than the males. The female pups started strong and then plateaued in talent as their bodies grew, and I was disappointed. Now, the mental development is catching up. I have seen this in another litter where the common sire or grandsire was a highly accomplished dog named Dan owned by James McLaughlin. One Irish wag said, Dan never produced good litters, despite being a champion, but I wonder if he was hasty in making that assessment. Dan may just produce later maturing puppies.
Just as with children, pups mature differently. All the more reason to hold pups longer if, like me, the objective of breeding is to find the best working pups and breeding stock. First out of the blocks doesn’t always win the race. The Bran sired females aren’t going anywhere just yet. When the snow melts, I’ll put them on sheep again and see who they are 4 or 5 months on from their last exposure.
13-Feb-2025
Thoughts While Cleaning Kennels
Some years ago, I was referred to a book called, ‘Thoughts While Tending Sheep‘, written by a retired Episcopal minister, living on a small farm in California, up in the hills from Carmel. A delightful book about sheep, dogs, faming and nature, which I recommend.
The title of that book is my point of departure for thoughts while cleaning puppy kennels this morning. I have several puppies from litters this summer who I have not yet moved into the adult quarters, where conformance to the “no uh-oh’s” policy is a requirement. The puppies have individual kennels, with a bedding of pine shavings, which absorb urine and hide feces, while providing a warm, soft base. I try to clean up the solid bits (that I can find) every day and change out the whole base every 5 days or so.
While I spent 40 minutes cleaning out the kennels today, these thoughts rumbled through my mind.
- I went from managing a corporate strategy group in a major international consulting group in the City of London to cleaning kennels and dog/puppy ‘accidents’. How did I get to such a place?? I’m sure none of my former peers are doing this. Is this really a retirement dream? And how is it that I kind of like it???
- Some puppies never seem to ‘get’ the idea of keeping a clean kennel. Am I doing something wrong in training? Does everyone have such problems? Dogs and puppies are supposed to not like sh***ing where they sleep. I’m sure I’m doing something wrong.
- After I have cleaned the kennels, disinfected them and put new shavings in, the first thing the puppies coming in from outside to urinate in the middle of their fresh shavings. Ahhh!!! Feelings of despair and ‘why bother?’ …kind of like changing a diaper and cleaning only to have junior do a free-for-all right away.
- The volume of feces generated bewilders me. It just keeps coming. I try capturing the new waste every day, but it hides (or is hidden) until the grand cleanup, when I am shocked by the accumulation and feel guilty for not doing it days earlier.
- Why is it I never remember to change my shoes/boots before beginning the task of cleaning …and end up having to spend time cleaning my treads –sometimes not remembering to take them off before entering the house?? May be early signs of dementia. More likely my chronic lack of mindfulness. $#it in the house to clean up (as well) is the price I pay for that.
- Why do dogs insist on burying their bowls in piles of shavings by the door, pushing the shavings out of the kennel into the walkway?? I scold them for doing it. They don’t have a clue what I am talking about.
- Winter has benefits -the outward signs of the kennels needing a cleaning are less noticeable- but my fingers are freeze while cleaning.
- People think no puppy should every cost more than $1000. They have NO IDEA what goes into raising a puppy, cost or time. Cleaning shi++y puppy kennels and accidents in the main kennel is not to make money. Puppies are a tax loss for me –never mind my time (which never gets accounted for). I do this because I like the few dogs I get out that truly suit me. The price complainers should go purchase an 8-week wonder, fluffed balls for $1000 and see how that goes…
- It is nice to see new life emerge. It is also nice when the little ones are off to forever homes and I can close the puppy kennels down for a while.
- The ability to understand crate training is correlated to ability to train sheep dogs for work. Those who take a long time to get with the clean kennel program also tend to be those more difficult to train. Nothing scientific about that and there will be all sorts of naysayers, but It is nonetheless my observation.
- …and finally… Wouldn’t it be nice if there were Huggies/Pampers for dogs?!!!
Puppy Prices
11-Jan-2025
I keep getting unsolicited ‘invitations’ to list my pups on a site from Lancaster County, PA, advertising itself as the largest border collie puppy listing site. Lancaster County is known for its farmland (rich soil and mild climate) and Amish community.
I have tried blocking the sending numbers / addresses, but the solicitations keep getting through, so I finally clicked the link to see what it was. The site is chockablock with cute AKC looking 7 week old border collies for around $600, coming from Pennsylvania addresses.
When I searched for Lancaster Puppies, Google returned this:
As someone who breeds working border collies, I find it hard to imagine how a breeder could break even with $600 or $800 puppies, except at some absurd and unprincipled breeding volume. My costs are 4 times that. That is partly because I keep my pups for 4 mo. or longer but also most litters are done via frozen artificial insemination, requiring stud fees, storage / transport costs, testing and insemination costs. Vaccination and worming costs alone are $150 / pup plus registration $35 / pup
Puppies at $600 – $800 are just a ‘commodity’. That is very dangerous for buyers. A dog is much more than a commodity. It is a sentient companion and working animal. Quality of breeding and fit matter. The budget puppies I see have a dull look / feel to them. They are typically poorly socialized and can have behavioral issues. I was bitten by one such dog crushing the bones in finger, permanently disabling one hand.
If a puppy is cheap, the latin phrase ‘caveat emptor’ applies: “let the buyer beware”. Price doesn’t assure quality and fit, but a low price is a warning sign.
When purchasing a puppy or dog, let quality be your guide: quality of pedigree / healthy, quality of breeder, quality of early life. A good puppy or dog is worth paying for.
The typical lifetime cost of a dog is $40,000 – $50,000, including purchase cost. …something people don’t usually think about when choosing a puppy.
$1000 – $1500 more up front for the right dog is a wise financial as well as emotional investment. You will have to live with this dog. The advice I give to buyers is to take your time, know what you are buying and choose well.
Puppies with hidden / undisclosed health problems can cost thousands and tens of thousands of dollars in veterinary costs over their lifetimes and suffer agonizingly. A bargain puppy with problems becomes a financial drain.
Expect to pay $1500 – $3000 for a high quality working collie puppy. Expect to see genetic disease profiles and where possible OFA or other health scores.
Buyers should not purchase very young puppies (7 weeks) in any case. Puppies need time to socialize and mature. They are always changing. The puppy you see at 7 weeks may not feel like the same puppy at 12 weeks.
The 8 week standard (rule) is a breeder’s convenience, to clear them out. Each pup and litter is different, puppies mature at different rates. More time with the breeder / litter is better than too little. The best pup I have ever bred would not have been my choice at 8 weeks. He was my clear choice at 16 weeks.
Buyers should avoid volume breeders. The American Border Collie Association (the working collie registry in the USA) publishes an annual list of high volume breeders as a service to its members:
“The ABCA does not endorse high volume breeders. The main purpose of the ABCA is to protect and promote the working Border Collie. Good working Border Collie breeders rarely produce more than a few litters per year. It is the intent of the ABCA to encourage breeders to use livestock working ability as the primary criterion to select potential breeding stock. This is very difficult to do when breeding at a high volume rate.”
Line Breeding
10-Jan-2025
I have never tried line breeding. By accident, Sue and Ormond Mirk (a then 7mo-old pup) mated, and Sue’s paternal grandsire and Mirk’s sire, Dewi Jenkins’ Jock, an International Champion.
Teun van den Dool, who maintains the ISDS pedigree database and reports on working border collie genetics told me not to worry about it. A coefficient of inbreeding of 6.25% is not that high and when the overlapping dog, Jock, is as healthy and venerable as Jock, it isn’t a problem.
I asked Dewi about the mating and he replied:
“I would be very very excited about that cross!!!
You have to line breed to get something special!!”
Rumors
5-Jan-2025
I was chatting with sheep dog handler in S. Wales about an upcoming breeding, Sue x Ormond Mirk. This was an accidental breeding …I didn’t know my 7 mo-old pup was fully potent. The pup’s sire is the dam’s grandsire, Dewi Jenkins’ International champion, Jock. This is ‘line breeding’ for sure, but the coefficient of inbreeding was 6.25%, not enough to work the ISDS resource studying sheep dog breeding, because he said the common ancestor, Jock, is known to be a healthy dog.
...or is he?
The person I was chatting to said, ‘rumor’ has it Jock has hip problems. And he added, ‘where there is smoke, there is fire’.
This is a very serious accusation.
The reputation and business of one of the very top handlers in the world, Dewi Jenkins, is on the line. I was stunned to hear that ‘rumor’, because some time ago, Dewi had provided me with Jock’s certified hip scores. They are very good, esp. for being taken at 7 years old, and a working life. Most dogs have theirs done at 2 years old. Jock’s BVA hip score is 7 / 7.
Dewi is a friend and one of the most upright and genuine people in the sheep dog work. He is a hugely successful trainer / handler, commanding record prices for his dogs at auction. I don’t know why people trade in such ‘rumors’. I can only speculate.
When I told Dewi what was being whispered, he said, “Why didn’t they just come to me?”
That is a very good question!
Dewi trains and sells excellent dogs. Rumors exchanged / whispered in private conversations, offered up almost salaciously, can do great damage. Dewi’s question is right on: why did they not just come to him?
When people have a breeding concern, they should be ethical and strong enough to bring it to the source and check it out, rather than spreading harmful gossip. I was more than disappointed -disgusted, actually- with the person who said, “just a ‘rumor’, but where there is smoke, there is fire.” No, there isn’t. There is only malfeasance.
For those who might breed with Dewi’s Jock, here is the BVA report on Jock’s hip scores, done in 2023 when he was 7 yrs old, after years of trialing and work, not a young 2 yr-old. According to the BVA, Jock’s hips are VERY GOOD, the breed mean/median being 12 and 10, respectively. Smaller is better. And they are balanced. I would breed with Jock without hesitation,.
A Dog I’d Like to Have
2-Dec-2024
Friend and in my opinion top working dog trainer / handler in the world, Dewi Jenkins, from Wales, bred and trained this dog, Tynygraig Mirk, who sold at auction for over $25,000. I can’t afford that for a dog, but I can afford to breed from Dewi’s stock, and do with awesome results.
Mirk in Dewi’s capable hands is everything I like to see in a working sheep dog.
Dogs in the House (and in the Bed)
27-Oct-2024
The Sunday Times today has a piece on Floss the working border collie and her journey inside and into the bed.
When I sell dogs and pups, I don’t preach rights and wrongs about inside v. outside. These are personal matters. Working dogs inside is fine in my view …if you are prepared for the mess (and wear and tear). And again in my view, if you are prepared to give up your life to their intensity, which multiplies non-linearly with the number of dogs.
Having dogs living in the house alters the relationship (and the dog) for sure, which may be what people want. And the dynamics change with dog numbers (as they do with children).
My personal choice is keep some distance between my dogs’ lives and mine. Days together. Nighttime is my time …in my space. And there is nothing unethical about that. After all, parents are happy for children’s time away at school and time spent in their rooms and with their peers. My dogs actually prefer I spend time with them ‘in their space’ rather than inviting them into my space.
As dogs get older (the Times article), I make accommodations for them in their space. I simply can’t be walking through stools and puddles in the house as the Times author does. Personal choice.
“Trick Dogs”
20-Oct-2024
Working border collies are specialists. They are bred for their herding instinct. They can make good agility dogs or even ‘trick dogs’, but that is less likely than with border collie lines bred for those specialties.
I had a trick dog trainer drive 14 hours one-way today to see one of my dogs only to be disappointed. He was looking for a specialist dog that could easily navigate an urban environment off-lead and learn to do impressive tricks. He had very strong views on what a puppy had to display to be ‘right’ for his purposes. Unsurprisingly, my herding specialists did not pass his test(s).
If I had known he was truly looking for a ‘trick dog’ and the temperament and conformation had to be exact, I would have discouraged him. Sometimes the true purposes / requirements do not come through in conversations.
Because working collies are specialists in herding, they are not bred for extroverted temperaments. In fact, that is generally a disadvantage.
Working collies follow motion and want to bring it to rest or steer it. Balls and frisbees can be objects of motion for working collies, but not always. Working collies tend to look for things moving along the ground, not in the air.
Some working collies understand agility courses. Some don’t. I am not a treat and clicker trainer, so that whole model of training is foreign to me. Training working collies focuses on a limited set of commands to work stock, with each situation being slightly different. Tricks and balls are not something working collie handlers know anything about.
Most working collies also make good pets, but not all. Some are simply too intense and focused on the work for which they are bred. Much of the reason I keep my pups for 16 weeks or more is to truly see which pups are dedicated working dogs, which are purely pets, and which can go either way. Across litters, the pup distribution is roughly:
- 25% specialist working dog
- 50% working dog / pet mix
- 25% pet only
I’m not sure where ‘trick dogs‘ fit into that distribution. I try to get people looking for agility and trick dogs to look at other breeding lines known for those specialities. Working collies are generally not a good fit.
*** ADDENDUM ***
A very interesting recent puppy purchasing experience from the UK
I saw two nicely bred quite young pups in a video who had not shown on sheep. The breeder and I agreed that he would work with the pups for a couple months to get them started. If I wasn’t satisfied by what I saw, no commitment. That said everything about who the breeder / trainer is. And it took out just about all the risk for me.